LevynLight Wiki talk:Community Portal
Category:Community This is the general discussion page for the wiki! New founders should leave a nice welcome message and encourage new visitors and editors to leave a note to get the conversation started. ---- Where are the admins/sysops and crats? Does this wiki have any currently? At least unlike the MH wiki this wiki has Wikia over seeing it to a degree. However, a few good admins can make a world of difference. (Compare the MH wiki's now near total lock down thanks to the vandalism vs. a well-oiled wiki such as the RuneScape wiki, which i've edited for years) 19:55, May 30, 2010 (UTC) New Wiki QUOTE: I am the chief editor of the Seeker Scoop, the first beta tester for LevynLight, and I speak to both the community and Giorgio on practically a daily basis... no one said this wiki would be shut down. What was said that the link for the in game wiki would be switched to the new wiki when it is ready for release. -Kayla 99.113.12.149 So is this wiki over as it sounds like making new page for this information: new wiki? Yeah I saw that too!! Can we get with the Seeker Scoop guys so we can pool this constant fracturing we as seeing going on. This is only going to get more confusing and I'm getting a little angry with the guys and gals over there with how they are creating all this confusion. Does anyone know what is actually happening with all this? I think we need to get the HitGrab guys(gals) in on all this so they can help straighten this out for everyone. --Jnelken 18:35, August 3, 2010 (UTC) So I got more info on this. It looks that they're working on a replacement to submit as to HG to take this one down. It's a little odd the way they're going about this kinda behind everyone who's been working here. But I think that they're just trying to fix some of the base flaws with the Wikia's system of doing things. We might want to all just pile in on there wiki to get it up and going since it will likely be taking this one out. Let me know what you think. --Jnelken 00:55, August 4, 2010 (UTC) :A bit more info can be found here: Tavern >> New Wiki for LL! for the ones who are interested. :I get why they want to abandon Wikia as a host (banners, free4all to edit, etc..) and I'm not a fan of the WYSIWYG editor myself. That nifty tool messes things up faster than you can say WYSIWYG ^^ The "design limitations" on the other hand is _part_ bullocks, a lot can be done here as well but you need to understand some of the wiki basics. My nice CutScene template for instance :) Perhaps a bit pointless, but at least is more readable and nice to look at. Hope it somehow makes it in the new wiki :P :I suggest that once/if the devs change the link in the game, we empty this one out and lock it down or remove it completely to prevent more confusion than necessary. Search engine's like this site if you use keywords levynlight and/or wiki :) :-- Senne 01:16, August 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Hey, hey! SS rep here. I'm sorry for the confusion and the lack of communication with you guys as to what's going on. The decision to make a new wiki and why is pretty much laid out in the post linked above, but I wanted to come here and explain that no ill-intent was meant towards the regular editors here. As was discussed with Giorgio as well as many others, the Wikia has been a major help for when LL was initially starting up. Many players couldn't have gotten the help they did without this being here and the many hours of work from multiple users inputing information. However, I believe that content and the community has simply grown too much for Wikia to sustain any longer. When the new wiki is finished being developed, it will replace this wiki. However, it is our hope that many of the loyal wiki editors here would consider shifting their focus and efforts to the new wiki as you all, no doubt, have been a priceless asset for the LL community. Again, my sincerest apologies for not contacting you guys sooner with the information and please feel free to message me directly if you would like to discuss anything further. - Kayla (Seeker Scoop) ::: :::Ah this finally all makes sense! It's beacause of this! http://levynlight.wikia.com/index.php?title=Esert_Village&action=history Esert Village:History. Kayla, Kaylabirdy, or 99.113.12.149 ::: :::=1st Post= :::"Seeker Scoop and our friends are working to develop a new wiki for LL using the same software as that in MH. It will address a lot of the concerns the community has been voicing and hopefully become a staple for gameplay - both to new and old Seekers! We're hoping to release it soon. However, it still needs a lot of work to get it ready for the public! If you have any technical knowledge of the MH wiki or Wikipedia, know and love LL, and want to see a updated wiki, please leave a post. We'll contact you directly with the web address of the new wiki and give your directions on how you can contribute via private message! Thank you all for your help!" :::: My Response ::::Original Post Contains 0 reasons other than "concerns" which are not explained. ::: :::=2nd Post= :::"1) It is an unfamiliar format. Whether we like it or not, many Seekers are players coming for MM and MH. The current wiki (from now on referred to as wikia) honestly just looks significantly different from the wikis in MM and MH. Because of this, many of our new players don't understand where to even start and are missing out on a lot of pertinent information that could help their gaming experience. 2) Wikia allows "unregistered users" to edit pages. While this may at first sound like a good thing to not require login to upload information, it can actually prove quite harmful. Why? Because, if one user were to upload false or malicious information, there is no way to track them and block them from doing it again without blocking every unregistered user. So in response, rather than blocking all unregistered users, the moderators of wikia simply allow it and rollback the changes when someone does something they don't like. On a smaller scale, this is ok. However, you can see the bigger problem when hundreds of people are editing. 3) Wikia uses the same source code as the MH and MM wikis. However, it's translated from a user friendly input box. Again, this sounds like a good thing, but it's actually a negative. Because many editors don't understand the source code or use it, many tables, etc. aren't as developed as they should be for players. Many of the editors just don't know how to make them and because of that, it's the players who miss out. We want the best and most concise information available for our players. 4) The attitude of the current wikia is, "If something is missing, update it yourself." Again, sounds like a good thing, but it's not. Why? Because most of us are lazy. :P The current wikia isn't being updated thoroughly or frequently enough to be a reliable source of information for players. The wiki we are proposing with have a dedicated staff (of which we are currently recruiting) to see that it is always updated with the most recent information. Rather than saying "You change it," we'll say, "Let us know what you want changed." Little to no work on your part and constant, reliable information on ours. 5) Player editors are still allowed and very much encouraged. The only difference is that they won't be the main crutch for the wiki. We won't rely on people with their busy schedules to constantly update a wiki for us. We'll have our dedicated team constantly updating and players who wish to edit will be added to the team. We will require a login in order to edit for the simple fact that we'd like to monitor their changes and ensure it's to the benefit of the wiki. This is merely a fail-safe to ensure that one "user" does not negatively change a main source of information for the game. It will give us the ability to block them if their changes are malicious as well as address them privately if the changes need to be adjusted to be a better benefit to the community. This isn't to say we assume players will vandalize the new wiki. It has more to do with the input code for pages and ensuring that the player editing knows how to properly write pages so they are easily understood by the players. The wiki will not be completely locked in the sense that anyone interested can log in and will be given permission to edit whatever they feel necessary to edit." :::: My Response ::::# Don't like the Format? Suggesting changes is easier than starting over. ::::# You can block Users by IP Address and Protect Pages once they are finished. Protecting pages now it a complete waste of time however as the information of the Game changes all the time. ::::# You need a need Wiki to be able to create better tables? Come On ::::# That's the attitude of all Wikis, unless you're suggesting that the new Admins of the new Wiki will be paid for there time I don't see what the difference is. ::::# If you just released plain txt change logs of what you're changing in the game, it would be very simple to edit the Wiki, instead of having to read through every single Item and Character card twice a week and manually comparing them to the Wiki. This process is time consuming and error prone. It was very easy to update the wiki when you put some of the changes in the http://apps.facebook.com/levynlight/news.php LL News. Eventhrough I don't think that the news is the best place to publish this information. This kind of information was invaluable to a wiki. :::=Conclusion= :::This seems to be more about control then "Concerns". The few of us who were around had to wait to be Admins but if someone from Hitgrab wants to be an Admin of this Wiki all they need to do is !ASK! instead of announcing that all the work that's done here has been in vain and is about to be replaced. If you want to add a How to Get Started Guide I'd happily unprotect the front page and make it the first link, I think that would address your "concerns". -Xick 22:12, August 4, 2010 (UTC) While I understand your initial frustration with the idea of a new wiki, the fact is that many players aren't just open to the idea of a new wiki, but are excited. They are dissatisfied not with your work as an editor, Xick, but with the software and presentation of wikia as a whole. Even with that said, the truth of the matter is that there is nothing wrong with the wikia if the LL community were smaller as it was when the game first started. It was an incredibly useful source of information for several months and even developing a new wiki won't change that. Unfortunately (or fortunately - depending on how you look at it) the community and the content have grown too much for what wikia offers. While I can wax on all day about the reasons, the fact is that the new wiki speaks for itself. Before criticizing it, I would ask that you consider taking a look and seeing why it may be a more appropriate wiki at this time for our community. While you may feel defensive of your own wikia that you admin (and understandably so), consider the feedback from the forums and give the new wiki a chance to demonstrate why it has been developed and why it is now needed by our community. 00:03, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :We can set the wikia skin to the oldschool monobook skin if this modern wikia skin is discomforting for most of the users. But we lose some functionality. Don't know which ones exactly. A few examples that wikia does allow major design changes: Creative Writing Wiki, Avatar: The Last Airbender Wiki, Red Dead Redemption Wiki. :I Like the nicer web 2.0 style, but somehow I guess it's cleaner the monobook way and can give people a more familiar feeling. :You can take a look here: to see which extensions are installed here, and maybe there are some that are useful on the new wiki? :But let's make the best of it, for the users sake. :- Senne 13:28, August 5, 2010 (UTC) ::Can someone explain to me what these reasons are? Is it that the front page is different from the MH and MM wikis? I agree that the ads are annoying so install adblocking software. I don't see why we need to re-create the wiki. Especially as the new wiki is copying data off this wiki WITHOUT ATTRIBUTION which violates the terms of use. I think getting rid of the wysiwyg editor means that even less people will be able to help edit the wiki. I for one think that the more the merrier and I'd rather spend my time fixing the format of pages done by well meaning people then have to do all the work myself. The new wiki format isn't as nice as this one and I'd rather be able to use all the templates that wikia offers instead of having to write new ones at the Wikii. I don't see how the new wikii offers more than wikia. At this time it offers far less and I think the new character pages are hideous and I have to scroll down to read every article and I have a 32'' monitor -Xick 19:55, August 5, 2010 (UTC)'' :: ::On another note, who is Kyla Freer, according to her FB she's in CA when Hitgrab is in ON... Why does she get to decide that there is a new wiki? Was there a post of the forums I missed about the wiki being so bad that it needs to be replaced? -Xick 20:06, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :Xick, I am the chief editor of the Seeker Scoop, the first beta tester for LevynLight, and I speak to both the community and Giorgio on practically a daily basis. I believe the reasons for the new wiki have already been clearly explained and extrapolated on. I've addressed your concern of authorship on the new wiki and I believe most will agree that it is clearly explained and does not violate wikia ToS. As far as your personal dissatisfactions with writing the new wiki is concerned, all I can say is that you are by no means required to edit it. Part of the beauty for the wiki is that you can make suggestions for change without having to do it yourself. Yes, there was a few spots in the forums that I suppose you did miss about the wikia being so bad that it needed to be replaced. It was in the tavern section and if you look in the full discussion board, I'm sure you can find it. People have stopped complaining about it for the moment because they're looking forward to the new wiki. 02:57, August 6, 2010 (UTC) : :If this wikia really worked then there wouldn't be a need for another to replace it. The only reason this is a point of discussion in the first place is that this wikia failed to adapt to changes in LL. Blaming the changes in LL for the lack of updates to the wikia has been the watchword, but that is no longer an acceptable excuse. The spirit of competition was apparently needed in order to get any major updates on this wikia, and that's a shame. Why was that fire was not here earlier? The simple fact of the matter is that editors needed to put the needs of the community first. The editors here at wikia were not organized enough to see to those needs. Was control the issue? Sure it was; There was not enough control by editors over the editing process. This boils down less to control and more to the overwhelming lack of leadership here. Crowdsourcing failed to make this wikia that product that the community needed and a more organized group of recuits are showing that starting over was a way to a) systematically address the structural changes to LL that took weeks and weeks to be addressed in this wikia and b) create a wiki that has clear leadership to be RESPONSIBLE to the community. If folks want changes they'll know who to ask (the Seeker Scoop or Mods) and they can expect that the changes will happen. Furthermore, The issues of security are real, as can be seen from the MH wiki's privitization a few months ago. Misleading information here can lead to wasted player time, increased player frustration, and lost revenue for HG. All of those are unnacceptable and counter-productive. --Fatedplace 04:47, August 6, 2010 (UTC) ::It wasn't competition that's led to a recent surge in edits to the wiki, the creator or the wiki abandoned it without appointing any admins and we had to wait til July 22, to get new ones appointed as wikia requires that you wait 60 days before you are able to adopt an abandoned wiki. As there were no admins or anyone with Admin access there wasn't any leadership or guidelines established when the Game when through two major changes. I readly admit that it was the lack of updates that led me to become involved in this wiki and apply for the Adoption of it so that both your and my concerns over the lack of adminstration of this wiki could be addressed. :: ::The recent spurt of edits since the release chap 5 have all been done by new users. I would assume that is because the majority of older ::users have been reading about the new wiki and don't want to put effort into this wiki after the Seeker's Scoop Announced the death of this ::wiki before talking to anyone here. ::Your privacy concerns and arguments are spurious, as we could protect this wiki to just registered users as the "new" one is. ::This wiki is MORE accountable to the community then a closed wiki. Any changes someone wants made here they can make themselves and not have to apply to a bureaucratic process to get changes made. Until such time as I see large amounts of spam and vandalism on this wiki I don't see the need to lock it down and not allow anyone who wishes access to have full access. ::I invite anyone who wants to join and improve the leadership of this Wiki to apply to be an admin or just start editing. ::I'm also very curious as to how you thought you'd shut down this wiki, before you had contacted any of the people with the access to do so. ::I think the real question is is will the new wiki eventually be leyvnlight.hitgrab.com (or something equivalent) or will it stay at it's current address(which I won't reveal as I know that it's in Beta)? If the owners and creators of the game want to assert their Moral Rights over their content then they should have final say as to where and what the wiki should be. -Xick 10:49, August 6, 2010 (UTC) :::Xick, no one said this wiki would be shut down. What was said that the link for the in game wiki would be switched to the new wiki when it is ready for release. This has been verified with Giorgio and approved. Giorgio has the address of the new wiki and is able to see all that is happening with it. Giorgio has no interest in updating a wiki, but he (like I) wants to fulfill the needs of the community in regards to a wiki. This wikia just isn't fulfilling them. Therefore, the official wiki link in the game will be switched when the new wiki is available for release. - Kayla 11:46, August 6, 2010 (UTC) :::: I've been offline a lot lately cause i was on a holiday and am back now. Kayla if you feel that the wiki is lacking something then please help by adding to the wiki rather than going and making a new wiki from scratch. - Sidharth Raveendran 12:37, August 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::: One thing I think isn't so clear in Kayla's responses above is that the "new" wikki would be submitted for approval by Giorgio to have the link switched. That is, the switch would be made IF a comparison of the two by HIM (and the community's input on the forum perhaps) led him to conclude that the "new" one was better than what was here. When the work started on the "new" wikki this wikia was in dire need of updating. Since that time many very positive changes and updates have been made that put this wikia in a far more favorable comparative light. I for one appluad the renewed vigor and attention that this wikia has gotten. I think things are looking quite good over here, and I only wish there weren't so many distracting floating ads everywhere to confuse me about what is actually part of this wiki's content and what is wikia's profiteering. Apart from that other missing things include quite a few characters, but not much else that I can tell atm. 03:04, August 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::: The wikia staff have been developing a new design for wikia as a whole behind the curtains. They plan on releasing a beta pretty soon. (sneakpeak non user | sneakpeak logged in user) If you really are annoyed by the adds, you can choose to connect with facebook for an quick and easy account. This will hide most of the ads (I think only on the main page it will have some.) Or install an add blocking extension. I know it's not nice of wikia to force users to either log in or see more advertising than content. I share your pain. :::::: -- Senne talk] 09:17, August 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Reposted from my talk page: :::::::Here is the reply I got when I e-mailed hitgrab, asking if we could keep links to both wikis as a compromise: :::::::"As far as the wiki is concerned, we will support the one with greater user support. From what I've been told, all the admins from Wikia have moved to Wikkii. Having both links would be confusing for the average player as they will each contain different information. It's better to have one master wiki that's localized and updated. The move to Wikkii was done in order to support more contributors who are more familiar with the system (as it looks more like Wikipedia). The work put into Wikia will not be in vain. A lot of the information there was moved to Wikkii and the users who contributed have also migrated." :::::::I don't personally think that it is accurate that the Admins of this Wiki have moved over to Wikkii. We all have accounts on the new wiki but I have been only been making minor edits to the other wiki and I haven't seen the other Admins making large numbers of edits. I personally prefer Wikia as there are Forums at Community Central that has been invaluable and they are continuing to add new content to their platform, such as the Achievements. I also hate editing tables in source code. :::::::Which Characters do you think are missing? :::::::-Xick 10:16, August 30, 2010 (UTC) ; To Kayla : I'm an advanced editor of Wikipedia and I can tell you one thing for sure - MH wiki does not look like Wikipedia. Have you been on it lately? There is a completely new skin with a new editor. Further more they are now working on a WYSWIG editor for it as it is easier to use for most new editors familiar with program like MS Word and OOo Writer. Further more I like this wiki and I'm annoyed! Sorry, but from what I've seen Wikia is working on this software and HitGrab is not. I can't even use user scripts on MH wiki. As for the WYSWIG: -> Editing -> uncheck "Enable Rich Text Editing". --Eccenux 21:39, August 31, 2010 (UTC) : : 1) My name is Kayla...not Kyla. : 2) MH wiki looked like wikipedia up until about a couple weeks ago when they switched over the skin. And it definitely looked like the old fashioned wikipedia as they both used Mediawiki software. : 3) I'm on wikipedia nightly...I read it in my spare time because I'm weird like that. : 4) The WYSWIG editor is definitely easier for newer editors, but it often has it's inherent flaws by being used by inexperienced editors. I personally prefer not having to edit other people's edits just because they don't understand source code. : 5) I'm glad you like this wiki. : 6) I'm sorry you're annoyed. : 7) User scripts are through java script. You can technically use them on any wiki by updating the jscommons page. Even MH wiki. I imagine they don't want to open that can of worms, though. Having just anyone play with software functionality can be bad. : 8) I know I can turn it off. It has a bad issue of not wanting to stay off, though. I also can't turn it off for everyone else. : : I was under the impression that this topic had been resolved. There are more issues than just the WYSWIG. Xick and I have discussed all of this at length. While we don't necessarily agree, we definitely seem to civilly disagree...lol. I'm not out to say your personal opinions concerning the wikia and wikii are wrong or right. I'm trying to find a way to resolve prevalent complaints about the wiki that the community has. If there was some magical way I could snap my fingers and fix everything, I would. But I cannot, in good conscience, ignore the majority feelings of the community towards the wiki. The good news is that this wiki will still exist regardless of the outcome of the new one. If you like this one, you will be able to continue to use it. - Kayla 03:55, September 1, 2010 (UTC) :: Sorry about the typo in your name. Unfortunately I will not be able to use Wikia if there will be no link to it. It's that simple - if there will not be enough editors it will die or slow decay in chaos if you will. Yes, a lot of work was put into making the Wikki version better, but the same effort would work much better if you would simply change some templates on Wikia. :: I'm an IT professional and I can tell you one thing for sure - you won't be able to stop users (or to be more exact abuser) from changing the page with JavaScript. JS is run on the user side and can do everything with the page. My point was that HG is not willing to change anything on wikis while Wikia updates their software from time to time. All of this is just a waste of resources. Human resources. Us. Eccenux 21:06, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Favicon Help out by suggesting a favicon please - Sidharth Raveendran 19:30, August 8, 2010 (UTC) : The one from levynlight? (http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v27562/72/377144924760/app_2_377144924760_148.gif) -- Senne 00:31, August 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Don't use the original LevynLight icon, it would be confusing when you have many tabs on Firefox (I'm sure similar with other browsers). My recommend is develop the similar icon but yet unique away from the original icon. I will look into the Photoshop and see how it's going. How about the animation favicon? ~~Firedealer T/ 19:14, August 15, 2010 (UTC) :::it would be great if you could make one - Sidharth Raveendran 19:28, August 15, 2010 (UTC) :::: Not all browsers support animated favicons. Perhaps something with the seekerstone? (http://levynlight.mythmonger.com/images/ui/buttons/seekerStone.png) --Senne 19:36, August 15, 2010 (UTC) :::::Ooo! Seeker Stone is great idea. I'll see if I can make one via Photoshop. ~~Firedealer T/ 21:48, August 15, 2010 (UTC) :::::Here it is . If it is too big, I can reproduce for 16x16. ~~Firedealer T/ 00:17, August 16, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Put it up, because it's much better then that blue w (and I like it) :). If a new idea - or better/nicer one appears - we can choose / discuss which one to keep. Cheers -- Senne 00:50, August 16, 2010 (UTC) ::::::: Great job, love it ! - Sidharth Raveendran 16:31, August 16, 2010 (UTC) :::::::: Awesome, I noticed that it's appearing on all my browsers today. Good Job. I like the little touches, they make the site! -Xick 17:05, August 16, 2010 (UTC) :::::::: Perhaps a matching logo? :::::::: -- Senne 01:21, August 20, 2010 (UTC) :::::::: I like it, let's upgrade the logo. ~~Firedealer T/ 03:48, August 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Awesome -Xick 04:49, August 20, 2010 (UTC) New Admins I was thinking that we should have some guidelines about how to appoint new admins, rollback permissions to other users. Are we going to stick with the current rule of over 100 edits that we used in the Adoption Process? -Xick 22:43, August 6, 2010 (UTC) : I think the 100 edits should be a guideline, but not a hard restriction. If someone wants to be an Admin, shows passion and devotion, is active and works constructive, but does not have 100 edits yet, he or she should still be credible to be one. The basic knowledge of wiki(a) and editing etc is of course necessary. - Senne 01:29, August 7, 2010 (UTC) :: I go with senne. post count doesn't matter as long as the user knows to edit the wiki and believes he/she can contribute more by getting to be an admin. ::Main Criterias Should Be : ::1. A good number of Clean edits ::2. Above Average knowledge about editing the wiki. ::If people do start asking for admin rights then i think we should add a link to the main page and after that we could evaluate the works of the user then decide wether the user should be granted admin rights - Sidharth Raveendran 13:28, August 7, 2010 (UTC) New User Welcome I've edited the new user welcome message to include links to Bored and the Main Community page, does anyone else have anything they want to add/change to MediaWiki:Welcome-message-user? -Xick 08:25, August 7, 2010 (UTC) Community Corner Message Current Message on Special:Home is: Community Corner Welcome to My Home! This page helps you stay up to date with what's happening on the wiki. If you're the founder or an admin on this wiki, you can change this message to talk to the community about important things happening on the site. For example, you could: Organize a project to build up an area of the wiki Show off some new pages that everyone should see Get people involved in a discussion that's happening on the site Give a shout-out to a contributor who's added something special to the wiki Or just post some words of encouragement! Any Suggestions as to how to customize it? -Xick 21:33, August 27, 2010 (UTC)